Who Were Xtc's Arch Rival Band?, particularly in the 80s Options

[Jeff Truzzi]

Who were XTC's biggest rivals?

I don't mean personally.
The Beatles & the Stones were 60s rivals, but they were personal friends of each other.
But the press made them out to be rivals.
And although lots of folks liked both, many fans bought into the rivalry, too.

And I'd say Yes & the Sex Pistols were the big 70s rivals.
In this case, it WAS personal...as well as style, music, image and every other '-wise.'

Two bands I would consider 'allies' of XTC would be The Police & The Talking Heads.
They don't really sound like XTC - or each other - but they share many things:
Literate lyrics, good musicianship, etc.
(Not that their rivals couldn't have those, too.)

But if they were the 'Allies' of a 1980s New Wave World War,
who would be the Axis?

The Clash?
Joe Jackson?
Madness?
Kajagoogo?
(Just throwing some names around.)

You Brits who lived through the era would be far better judges of this than I,
who only occasionally saw rare imported copies of Melody Maker and the NME and wasn't inundated with the hyperbole.
I didn't even know XTC fans weren't supposed to like Yes, until being informed of that here...in no uncertain terms . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But this isn't saying you can't like both XTC and their rival band.
It's just asking:
Who would XTC's biggest rival be?

[Andy Partridge]

I was always irrationally jealous of REM,who's every fart seemed to be held up as holy writ. I just thought they were OKish. Of course they played the game a lot better than we did,but let's be honest folks.....

[donavan]

Never considered REM to be a rival of XTc. More Squeeze, Haircut 100 and Split Enz. Or The Skids.
On TOTPS XTc just looked awkward and hopelessly lost next to these bands. And just as they were finding their feet competing (in a chart sense) with other bands (Senses/Settlement) it stopped. Because it had to.






This post has been edited by donavan: Nov 18 2011, 09:45 PM

[weasie]

Squeeze was the first band that came to mind when I read Jeff's post. There are certainly many similarities between the two bands.

Haircut 100 did not immediately come to mind, but I sure appreciate that you thought of them as being serious rivals, don. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[donavan]

I've edited my post weasie as you replied, not sure if that makes a difference. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Spastic Minnow]

To be a proper rivalry it would have to include groups of people that say "No, I don't like _________, I like XTC. As if liking one excludes the other. I figure Talking Heads and The Police were closer to complimentary. I think it should be some group that seemingly came out of the same influence as XTC did but took it in a different direction.

Well, it's said that XTC wouldn't have happened without Punk coming before it, so maybe some pop-punk band that was rising at the same time?
There are even a couple X band that could fit the bill.

No, I don't like XTC,, I like XRay Spex
No, I don't like XTC,, I like Generation X

that kind of works, but they both had pathetic shelf lives.

Maybe another new wave post-punk band that "kept it real" and stayed all jangly and crazy? Donavan's selections seem right too.
Maybe They Might Be Giants were right when they paired them with Adam and the Ants.

Ha, this is funny...
I just looked at the page for that song at This Might Be A Wiki
http://tmbw.net/wiki/XTC_Vs._Adam_Ant
and found this note:
"On June 24, 2002, Washingtonpost.com hosted a moderated chat with Flansburgh, in which fan questions were chosen to be answered. When asked about the meaning of the song, Flansburgh said, "The point of the song is they are both good for different reasons- who is rock more? Buddy Holly or Little Richard? We need them both!"

Guess which fan jokingly asked the question "XTC or Adam Ant?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[donavan]

I was thinking more rivals in the charts.

[weasie]

I've edited my post weasie as you replied, not sure if that makes a difference. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No worries. You didn't edit the important bit... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[geordiegav]

WHY DON'T YOU TWO JUST BOOK A ROOM! Ahem anyway XTC rivals .... It's a deeper question than first glance suggests and the answer possibly shows how business like the music industry was then and is even more now,Fuck art fuck dance lets sell some units!Just to name one company butVirgins list of new wave bands of the late 70's is mind boggling in numbers ,I think now they were almost kept like racehorses (although treated like mules) hedging their bets on which one would would win the yearly race and the big company pay off while the others were dropped for the knackers yard...XTC surviving until Skylarking is amazing in some ways...probably due to their shitty contract?Andy?Pauline Murray from Penetration also on Virgin in 77/78/79 reckons XTC were pushed more by Virgin than all the other bands on the label at the time...maybe sour grapes on her part,obviously I think XTC had much better material than the other bands but the Skids,Magazine, Cowboys International ,Penetration,Devo,Human League,the Members,X-Ray Spex,Sex Pistols,PIL and others but jeez Branson went for anything that moved with one band member with a semi spike hairdo and stare...cynically I'd say to push them all on the track hoping one would bring home the gold cup again after the success of the Pistols.
It's bizarre but if you ever see people selling tiny record collections of the so called 'punk' era of the late 70's in the Uk on Ebay they all have almost the same records for sale Statue of Liberty and Nigel plus 2 skids,1 members,3 stranglers,4 Jam Squeezed between a Joe Jackson and a Damned Advert,1 Drummerman,a bit sham,something Lurking,2 Clash no pic sleeves,2 buzzcocks,1 magazine,1 x-ray spex , a rutles coloured vinyl , Wayne County's swear record, Sex Pistols (usually friggin in the riggin SIGH) oh and a single or two by Madness???? along with a bit Police and Gary Numan.
In the early days XTC were just one of many bands running on the same circuit both in Sales and on Tour it is a bit of a miracle they got to make so many albums and out run most of their rivals if that's what they were? Oh I'd go for Stadium Dogs first Elvis Skids Stranglers Jam second era Police Talking Heads third era Fuck knows after that ?Andy talking about REM reminds me of Pauline Murray talking about XTC in the late 70's ...the best kind of rivalry should be within the band that's what keeps it going and maybe that's the best rivalry Xtc had ..... It's a small group of groups who manage to make over 10 studio albums when you think of it! Maybe quality trumps marketing in the end!
Winners.....Us

[donavan]

WHY DON'T YOU TWO JUST BOOK A ROOM! Ahem anyway XTC rivals .... It's a deeper question than first glance suggests and the answer possibly shows how business like the music industry was then and is even more now,Fuck art fuck dance lets sell some units!Just to name one company butVirgins list of new wave bands of the late 70's is mind boggling in numbers ,I think now they were almost kept like racehorses (although treated like mules) hedging their bets on which one would would win the yearly race and the big company pay off while the others were dropped for the knackers yard...XTC surviving until Skylarking is amazing in some ways...probably due to their shitty contract?Andy?Pauline Murray from Penetration also on Virgin in 77/78/79 reckons XTC were pushed more by Virgin than all the other bands on the label at the time...maybe sour grapes on her part,obviously I think XTC had much better material than the other bands but the Skids,Magazine, Cowboys International ,Penetration,Devo,Human League,the Members,X-Ray Spex,Sex Pistols,PIL and others but jeez Branson went for anything that moved with one band member with a semi spike hairdo and stare...cynically I'd say to push them all on the track hoping one would bring home the gold cup again after the success of the Pistols.
It's bizarre but if you ever see people selling tiny record collections of the so called 'punk' era of the late 70's in the Uk on Ebay they all have almost the same records for sale Statue of Liberty and Nigel plus 2 skids,1 members,3 stranglers,4 Jam Squeezed between a Joe Jackson and a Damned Advert,1 Drummerman,a bit sham,something Lurking,2 Clash no pic sleeves,2 buzzcocks,1 magazine,1 x-ray spex , a rutles coloured vinyl , Wayne County's swear record, Sex Pistols (usually friggin in the riggin SIGH) oh and a single or two by Madness???? along with a bit Police and Gary Numan.
In the early days XTC were just one of many bands running on the same circuit both in Sales and on Tour it is a bit of a miracle they got to make so many albums and out run most of their rivals if that's what they were? Oh I'd go for Stadium Dogs first Elvis Skids Stranglers Jam second era Police Talking Heads third era Fuck knows after that ?Andy talking about REM reminds me of Pauline Murray talking about XTC in the late 70's ...the best kind of rivalry should be within the band that's what keeps it going and maybe that's the best rivalry Xtc had ..... It's a small group of groups who manage to make over 10 studio albums when you think of it! Maybe quality trumps marketing in the end!
Winners.....Us

......................and breathe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[hummingbird]

REM had an advantage being from the US and on WB U.S proper, so commercially they were more successful launching off of U.S. base. (Xtc launched into it) Musically look at REM beginning sound and ending sound, not much growth or expanse especially compared to Xtc start and finish. I'm certainly no expert, but I think REM songwriting is absolutely dwarfed by Xtc songwriting. U2 pretty much the same as REM, musically limited range. Stranglers never made to me here in the U.S.. Squeeze and Elvis Costello hold up better musically, but it is all a big crap shoot regarding commercial success. So Xtc is unrivaled in my book. The best music holds up long term.

This post has been edited by hummingbird: Nov 19 2011, 07:44 PM

[Per Aronsson]

Well, Truzzi, if you keep on placing every thread on several forums and Facebook, it will be tough to keep up. For me it is dead easy. XTC has no rivals. Not other act comes even close.

[donavan]

Well, Truzzi, if you keep on placing every thread on several forums and Facebook, it will be tough to keep up.

Blimey Per, I think we at last agree on something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Well more than one thing. XTc are the best. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Nowhereman437]

I was always irrationally jealous of REM,who's every fart seemed to be held up as holy writ. I just thought they were OKish. Of course they played the game a lot better than we did,but let's be honest folks.....

R.E.M were a good few yrs. bheind xtc. I'm surpised you feel a competiveness with them but I've read this thread and no one's pointed out the obvious...XTC were stymied by their lack of live perfromances/promotion...the police/R.E.M hit the road on a much more consistent basis. If XTC had continued to tour they wouldn't have disappared off the radar as much as they did but the fact they did retire from touring but still contiunted as a band is pretty remarakable. I think theere's an implication in what Andy's posted that R.E.M were drunk...I mean that R.E.M were a bit shit i don't agree with that. R.E.M were one of the finest pop/rock bands and I love them...yeah they went with WB which was a commerical deciosn but they produced so many fine songs. I love R.E.M and XTC and beer and wine. I don't think anyone is like XTC. They were more diverse than R.E.M but ultimately less commerical succesful and that's not a bad reflection on R.E.M anymore than it is a postivie reflection on XTC. Dpes that make sense? I'm drunk. ha ha ha. Andy could have been as big as Sting the fact he's not is both lamentable and commendable. Music is mucis and let's just take it for what it is. It's not a compettion. Are XTC going to compete againtt R.E.M for the gold medal in song writing at next years Olympics? No. They're not.

[Jeff Truzzi]

Well I'm a little drunk myself right now - not an ideal state to be posting, I know - but let me say a few things.

I posted this question here AND on two Facebook XTC sites:
the Facebook "XTC Backporch"...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/128751573848794/
…and the Facebook "Andy Partridge of XTC Fan Club"...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/29388366185/
…to get a diversity of opinions from various XTC fans, as well as AP himself.

I included Facebook links to APE so people could read these responses themselves, and to hopefully turn some Facebook folks onto this APE site. And as can be seen by perusing all three sites, there is far more diversity than redundancy. (Vocabulary relatively intact? I must not be drunk enough!)

Sure XTC would have been bigger if they'd kept touring. But it wouldn't be the XTC we know today. Would "Skylarking" exist if XTC stayed on the album/tour/album/tour grind? I doubt it. Sure, XTC could have been bigger than Talking Heads.. They could have been as big as the Police, or bigger. But it wouldn't be the XTC that gave us "Dear God", "Mayor of Simpleton", "Rook" & "Easter Theater." It would have been an 'alternate universe XTC', for better or worse. And I have a real hard time imagining 'better.'

It sure as hell wouldn't have been the XTC that went from "This Is Pop" to "River Of Orchids." The ONLY band I can think of that travelled THAT far musically is the Beatles. And guess what? The Beatles wouldn't have, either - if they'd kept touring.

My posts were intended to prompt discussion, and indeed they have! Every response on every site has been valid and interesting. Thank you all for participating…and reading!

I don't believe in rating bands like sport teams or 'American Idol' singers. Pavarotti is a technically better singer than Neil Young, but he can't do what Neil does. That's part of the mystery - and the beauty - of music. It is far more than the sum of its parts, and the best of it transcends its time and place

And I said 'rivals' - not 'peers'. (The non-nobility definition.)
XTC have no peer. They are in a class unto themselves.
As is Igor Stravinsky. And Louis Armstrong. And the Beatles.

I agree with geordiegav: in THIS game, the winners are ALL of US.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Per Aronsson]

Truzzi, my sweet little lilliefield, I was just teasing you a little bit. For a moment I didn´t know where to answer and now I have answered in all places! Your question caused a really good discussion. But still, the answer is simple. XTC has no rivals.

[donavan]

Well in a commercial sense every band that charted above them were rivals. In a purely music sense their strong point was good pop music with a twist and usually very good lyrics. And not many bands came close to them. In my opinion where they really excelled was when they played live. If you caught them in the right mood it really was a night to remember. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Retrocanary]

Being a HUGE fan of both XTC and Squeeze, I absolutely fail to understand why the two are so often compared. XTC are WAY more interesting in my opinion, and made much more interesting melodies and used more interesting chords and rythms etc.

Squeeze are brilliant songwriters, whose style is slightly more traditional pop in my view, and also make good use of guitar solos. And Glenn Tilbrook is really, in my opinion, an excellent gig man, and I go to as many of his shows as I can.

So to me the two are completely different.

I see The Smiths more as rivals to XTC.

[Mare]

Never considered REM to be a rival of XTc. More Squeeze, Haircut 100 and Split Enz. Or The Skids.
On TOTPS XTc just looked awkward and hopelessly lost next to these bands. And just as they were finding their feet competing (in a chart sense) with other bands (Senses/Settlement) it stopped. Because it had to.

Yep, Donavan, we are on the same page. U.K.Squeeze/Squeeze and the Split Enz are what first came to my mind as the bands that, to my humble ear, also piqued my interest to the same degree. Interesting that Mr. Partridge would say R.E.M. Dunno if it is just Michael Stipe's voice, but most R.E.M. songs kinda sound the same to me.

If I were to go out on a limb and name a U.S. artist of comparable talent and longevity, I'd have to say Stan Ridgway. Both he and Mr. Partridge are brilliant lyrically, and they continue to fascinate and entrance me in some cases years, nay decades after hearing their artistry.

Another U.S. band that has been around only since the 90s that tells wonderful stories accompanied by excellent tunes as do Mr. Partridge and Mr. Ridgway is dada.

Before this becomes a list of my favorites and I bring up Rogue Wave, I'll stop. Grin.

[Andy Partridge]

If we'd have continued touring we may well have fallen apart one album or so after SETTLEMENT. I was burned out.

In an alternate universe would we have continued touring and gone on to do the U2 stadium thing,I don't think so as none of us had the big showoff gene a la Bono,Sting,Jagger etc.

I may add Talking Heads to the rival list,but they were American,and they came from New York which were seen as 'cool'. We would NEVER be seen as cool,especially by the English,simply because of the Swindon connection. Damned by our association with England's 'joke' town.