Which Through The Hill Should We Buy?, What's the story? Options

[Honeycomb Jack]

Andrew Swainson mentioned this on the MHB Boy From The Moon thread. Which Through The Hill should we avoid? I got my copy a few years ago, its the one in the reddy-brown type cover, released in 1999 (I think). What are the differences between this and the new version available for download?

Are there any other releases by Ape artistes on former labels that we should boycott because the artistes aren't getting paid for them?

[Honeycomb Jack]

Well, Jack, seeing as Ape sell 'Through The Hill' as a digital download on the Ape site, then that would seem to be the one to buy, wouldn't it?

Therefore it would probably be safe to assume that if you only brought cds from the Ape site the artistes would be recompensed fairly.

Nitwit.

[Honeycomb Jack]

Its all very well you saying that, but what if you're a collector of Harold Budd's work, what then? Which is more important, completing your collection or not ripping off Harold Budd? Answer me that.

Smug muffin.

[Andrew Swainson]

It's a dilemma alright! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Honeycomb Jack]

It certainly is a dilemma, Andrew. But I'm unlike Jack, in that I'm quite happy with the music. I like the packaging and everything (apart, of course, from the XTC Virgin reissues), but I shan't get triplicates of a disc just to collect the different artwork, so I'm not a completist in that way. In fact, I never thought in a million years I'd think it, but I'm quite liking having all my music on my ipod, and I'm starting to find cds cumbersome. I don't mind the size of the artwork on the ipod either.

Don't get me wrong, I used to love reading LP covers. Maybe the cheapening of cover art started with the advent of the cd? Its hard to appreciate a Roger Dean cover when its only 120x120mm isn't it? Then again, the cd concept can be exploited, art-wise, as Andrew Swainson has demonstrated with the Coat Of Many Cupboards and Transistor Blast box sets.

In a roundabout way I'm saying that if Through The Hill was only available via download, I'd get it if I didn't already have it. If there were extra tracks, I'd get it. Has the remastering made any difference? If it has, I'll get it but it won't be as high priority (ie there are other cds to get first).

Is the lack of discussion about Through The Hill and Lighterthief's Maximalism ep due to the fact that they are only available as downloads? (Even though you cannot go wrong with Lighterthief for only a paltry two quid - its brilliant).

As for ipod artwork - are graphic designers consciously designing album artwork with the size of ipod graphics in mind? Or do you design to LP format and scale down? If you could answer this, Andrew, that would be nice, or indeed, any other graphic designers/artists out there.

Thankyou in advance.

[Andrew Swainson]

I can honestly say that I have never considered how sleeve artwork is going to look on an iPod. I'm not sure that many designers would think too hard about how it's going to look when squished down to a 2cm square on a tiny LCD screen.
I have to say that I think that you don't mind the artwork on your iPod because you can make a mental reference to the original CD or LP image though. There is some novelty value in seeing the sleeve rendered tiny I'll admit, and it's a little visual reminder of how much "space has been saved" by having them in digital format - but I reckon without having seen a larger original, some of those little squares are pretty meaningless in themselves. How does Through The Hill look?

I imagine there is something to your point about Through The Hill and Maximalism. Perhaps there is a perception that they are of lesser value because they have no physical presence and exist only as digital data. Does giving the same digital data a little plastic box to live in give it greater importance? Or maybe we need to prove to ourselves that we have bought something that can be seen and touched and not merely heard - value for money because it stimulates three senses instead of just one.

This post has been edited by Andrew Swainson: Mar 27 2009, 05:01 PM

[Honeycomb Jack]

I had a post prepared with the three different Through The Hill artworks contained in it plus my (for me) eloquent explanations regarding each. But due to a seemingly spasmodically random click on this poxy pc, all has been lost to the cyber-ether. I would post it again, but having imbibed of rather more than a quaff of ale at lunchtime, enthusiasm for a repeat of this heart-leaping exercise has dripped out of my water retented ankles and through the damp course. Soon I am off to Rotterdam for what has been classed as a 'Stag Weekend', so unfortunately (or, more truthfully, fortunately) I cannot reply until next Wednesday, when I shall again attempt to address the points raised in your post, Andrew. Until then, please accept my pixel-tainted apologies.

Apologies furthermore for realising that I should really have PM'd this info directly to Andrew and not posted it for all to see, but imbibation, enthusiasm, cyber-ether etc.

[Honeycomb Jack]

I had a post prepared with the three different Through The Hill artworks contained in it plus my (for me) eloquent explanations regarding each. But due to a seemingly spasmodically random click on this poxy pc, all has been lost to the cyber-ether. I would post it again, but having imbibed of rather more than a quaff of ale at lunchtime, enthusiasm for a repeat of this heart-leaping exercise has dripped out of my water retented ankles and through the damp course. Soon I am off to Rotterdam for what has been classed as a 'Stag Weekend', so unfortunately (or, more truthfully, fortunately) I cannot reply until next Wednesday, when I shall again attempt to address the points raised in your post, Andrew. Until then, please accept my pixel-tainted apologies.

Apologies furthermore for realising that I should really have PM'd this info directly to Andrew and not posted it for all to see, but imbibation, enthusiasm, cyber-ether etc.

Okay, yeah! Apathy rules! Go on amazon.co.uk and search 'Through The Hill Andy Partridge Harold Budd' (no need for caps, btw) and have a look at the four (including the Ape download) artworks available. If you have an ipod (or similar) music device, ask yourself which one looks good in a 20x20mm (approx) square. Send this opinion to your local MP and go to bed (but not before informing a responsible person that you wish to be placed in the recovery position). Snore and do things. Replace sheets where necessary.

Yes, I could have been a player. Honest.

[Honeycomb Jack]

I imagine there is something to your point about Through The Hill and Maximalism. Perhaps there is a perception that they are of lesser value because they have no physical presence and exist only as digital data. Does giving the same digital data a little plastic box to live in give it greater importance? Or maybe we need to prove to ourselves that we have bought something that can be seen and touched and not merely heard - value for money because it stimulates three senses instead of just one.

I'm starting to have the opinion (and this is in no way disrespecting your profession, Andrew) that the lack of physical packaging is actually forcing people to judge music solely on its own merits.

[Andy Partridge]

The quick version of 'the story' goes like this.The All Saints label never paid Harold or myself any royalties for the album,SO,after threats of legal action in which head of All Saints,Dominic Norman Taylor,paid us a couple of hundred each in a pale attempt to shut us up etc.,I simply decided to put it up on APE as a download.This way Harold and I can make something for our labours.
Please buy APE.

[marcus h]

The quick version of 'the story' goes like this.The All Saints label never paid Harold or myself any royalties for the album,SO,after threats of legal action in which head of All Saints,Dominic Norman Taylor,paid us a couple of hundred each in a pale attempt to shut us up etc.,I simply decided to put it up on APE as a download.This way Harold and I can make something for our labours.
Please buy APE.

The right thing to do.

[marcus h]

The right thing to do.

Is there anyway of releasing this on heavy vinyl through Ape of course? As I'm a vinyl addict.

[nightotter]

being a vinyl addict Marcus H, can you explain what "heavy vinyl" is?

thanks.


otter.

[marcus h]

being a vinyl addict Marcus H, can you explain what "heavy vinyl" is?

thanks.


otter.

I can but I did have to pinch the explaination of another site:

120-140 g is a "normal" vinyl LP, like most new releases in the 20th century. 180 g is considered audiophile grade and most new releases and re-releases available today come out in this format. The record is thicker and heavier so it may be less prone to warping over time. Some claim sonic benefits on 180 g's like better stereo imaging, less noise, wider bandwidth, etc. Another factor is "virgin" vinyl (often a feature hand in hand with 180 g and heavier LPs) which uses no recycled plastic which can contain impurities leading to a noisier record.

When Through the Hill came out on vinyl. Well lets say if you left an iron on the same room, it warped.

[nightotter]

When Through the Hill came out on vinyl. Well lets say if you left an iron on the same room, it warped.

That's funny (but not for the record owner). thanks for the explanation. cheers.